Comments on: Fun with Polybutylene and Lender Owned Homes http://www.mytucsonblog.com/bank-owned-homes/fun-with-polybutylene-and-lender-owned-homes/ Everything you need to know about Tucson and Real Estate - and then some Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:05:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Jake Boen http://www.mytucsonblog.com/bank-owned-homes/fun-with-polybutylene-and-lender-owned-homes/comment-page-1/#comment-1695 Jake Boen Mon, 05 Jan 2009 00:47:24 +0000 http://www.mytucsonblog.com/?p=1446#comment-1695 PB really is a monster of a mess and I have done my share of research as our house and entire neighborhood have PB. Our service line (PB) broke and we replaced it last year with copper. Also during a shower retiling I confirmed that PB is inside as well. While performing research I found that PB is currently allowed by the latest building codes. From your photo you have the current allowed ASTM number for the tubing. I can not tell from the photo about the fittings (which have a separate class action suites against them). I have not confirmed that PB has been banned from the US. I'm curious if commenter John Griffith has more details on this. Here is what the building code states: Water service PB must conform to the following standards from the 2006 International Plumbing Code. Polybutylene (PB) plastic pipe and tubing ASTM D 2662; ASTM D 2666; ASTM D 3309; CSA B137.8M Interior piping must conform to the following standards: Polybutylene (PB) plastic pipe and tubing ASTM D 3309; CSA B137.8M Fitting standards: Polybutylene (PB) plastic CSA B137.8 More code sections: 605.19 Polybutylene plastic. Joints between polybutylene plastic pipe and tubing or fittings shall comply with Sections 605.19.1 through 605.19.3. 605.19.1 Flared joints. Flared pipe ends shall be made by a tool designed for that operation. 605.19.2 Heat-fusion joints. Joints shall be of the socket-fusion or butt-fusion type. Joint surfaces shall be clean and free from moisture. All joint surfaces shall be heated to melt temperature and joined. The joint shall be undisturbed until cool. Joints shall be made in accordance with ASTM D 2657, ASTM D 3309 or CAN3-B137.8M. 605.19.3 Mechanical joints. Mechanical joints shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions. Metallic lock rings employed with insert fittings as described in ASTM D 3309 or CAN3-B137.8M shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions. Fun Fun! PB really is a monster of a mess and I have done my share of research as our house and entire neighborhood have PB. Our service line (PB) broke and we replaced it last year with copper. Also during a shower retiling I confirmed that PB is inside as well.

While performing research I found that PB is currently allowed by the latest building codes. From your photo you have the current allowed ASTM number for the tubing. I can not tell from the photo about the fittings (which have a separate class action suites against them). I have not confirmed that PB has been banned from the US. I’m curious if commenter John Griffith has more details on this.

Here is what the building code states:
Water service PB must conform to the following standards from the 2006 International Plumbing Code.

Polybutylene (PB) plastic pipe and tubing ASTM D 2662; ASTM D 2666; ASTM D 3309; CSA B137.8M

Interior piping must conform to the following standards:
Polybutylene (PB) plastic pipe and tubing ASTM D 3309; CSA B137.8M

Fitting standards:
Polybutylene (PB) plastic CSA B137.8

More code sections:
605.19 Polybutylene plastic. Joints between polybutylene
plastic pipe and tubing or fittings shall comply with Sections
605.19.1 through 605.19.3.
605.19.1 Flared joints. Flared pipe ends shall be made by a
tool designed for that operation.
605.19.2 Heat-fusion joints. Joints shall be of the
socket-fusion or butt-fusion type. Joint surfaces shall be
clean and free from moisture. All joint surfaces shall be
heated to melt temperature and joined. The joint shall be
undisturbed until cool. Joints shall be made in accordance
with ASTM D 2657, ASTM D 3309 or CAN3-B137.8M.
605.19.3 Mechanical joints. Mechanical joints shall be
installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.
Metallic lock rings employed with insert fittings as
described in ASTM D 3309 or CAN3-B137.8M shall be
installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.

Fun Fun!

]]> By: John Griffith http://www.mytucsonblog.com/bank-owned-homes/fun-with-polybutylene-and-lender-owned-homes/comment-page-1/#comment-1681 John Griffith Tue, 30 Dec 2008 17:40:41 +0000 http://www.mytucsonblog.com/?p=1446#comment-1681 Looks like you may have a potential Double Whamy on your hands here. I commented a while back about the polybutylene pipes and recently had a second look at the picture you posted only to see the words ABS marked on the black drain pipe. You should know that there is an active class action settlement involving certain brands of ABS drain pipes. For more information have a look at the settlement website http://www.abspipes.com. I hope you'll reconsider shooting this messenger! Looks like you may have a potential Double Whamy on your hands here. I commented a while back about the polybutylene pipes and recently had a second look at the picture you posted only to see the words ABS marked on the black drain pipe. You should know that there is an active class action settlement involving certain brands of ABS drain pipes. For more information have a look at the settlement website http://www.abspipes.com. I hope you’ll reconsider shooting this messenger!

]]> By: Kelley Koehler http://www.mytucsonblog.com/bank-owned-homes/fun-with-polybutylene-and-lender-owned-homes/comment-page-1/#comment-1679 Kelley Koehler Mon, 29 Dec 2008 17:54:39 +0000 http://www.mytucsonblog.com/?p=1446#comment-1679 David - it tends to leak or break, especially at the connectors, is my understanding. David – it tends to leak or break, especially at the connectors, is my understanding.

]]> By: Andy-Ann Arbor real estate http://www.mytucsonblog.com/bank-owned-homes/fun-with-polybutylene-and-lender-owned-homes/comment-page-1/#comment-1676 Andy-Ann Arbor real estate Sun, 28 Dec 2008 05:27:49 +0000 http://www.mytucsonblog.com/?p=1446#comment-1676 Yes - buyers need to understand what they are getting into. Always get a thorough inspection done by a pro - not Uncle Ralph. There are many great deals out there, but too many hidden costs can ruin a good deal fast. Yes – buyers need to understand what they are getting into. Always get a thorough inspection done by a pro – not Uncle Ralph. There are many great deals out there, but too many hidden costs can ruin a good deal fast.

]]> By: Jonathan Benya http://www.mytucsonblog.com/bank-owned-homes/fun-with-polybutylene-and-lender-owned-homes/comment-page-1/#comment-1673 Jonathan Benya Mon, 22 Dec 2008 06:29:15 +0000 http://www.mytucsonblog.com/?p=1446#comment-1673 Amen!! I'd rather lose the sale then put someone in a lemon! There is NEVER a good reason to risk our reputation because the bank is selling as-is and doesn't want to disclose! Amen!! I’d rather lose the sale then put someone in a lemon! There is NEVER a good reason to risk our reputation because the bank is selling as-is and doesn’t want to disclose!

]]> By: John Griffith http://www.mytucsonblog.com/bank-owned-homes/fun-with-polybutylene-and-lender-owned-homes/comment-page-1/#comment-1672 John Griffith Sun, 21 Dec 2008 21:47:19 +0000 http://www.mytucsonblog.com/?p=1446#comment-1672 Hello Kelley my name is John Griffith and I work for a contractor by the name of Plumbing Express that specializes in turnkey (includes plumbing & drywall) defective plumbing replacements for both single family and multifamily structures in 30 states nationally. The picture you posted is indeed polybutylene plumbing. It's what's typically referred to as "second generation" poly which makes use of copper fittings rather than plastic fittings seen in first generation poly systems. Unfortunately both types of poly systems were essentially banned from the US in or around 1995 which is also the same year the poly based class action settlement went into effect. If your interested in the ongoing class action settlement there are two dates that you should take note of. The home must experience a qualified leak by 1/31/09 and the claim for the home must be filed no later than 5/1/09. For more information I'd encourage you to have a look at both www.polybutylene.com and www.pbpipe.com. Please feel free to email me with all of your poly related questions and I'll be happy to help out any way I can. Hello Kelley my name is John Griffith and I work for a contractor by the name of Plumbing Express that specializes in turnkey (includes plumbing & drywall) defective plumbing replacements for both single family and multifamily structures in 30 states nationally. The picture you posted is indeed polybutylene plumbing. It’s what’s typically referred to as “second generation” poly which makes use of copper fittings rather than plastic fittings seen in first generation poly systems. Unfortunately both types of poly systems were essentially banned from the US in or around 1995 which is also the same year the poly based class action settlement went into effect. If your interested in the ongoing class action settlement there are two dates that you should take note of. The home must experience a qualified leak by 1/31/09 and the claim for the home must be filed no later than 5/1/09. For more information I’d encourage you to have a look at both http://www.polybutylene.com and http://www.pbpipe.com. Please feel free to email me with all of your poly related questions and I’ll be happy to help out any way I can.

]]> By: david http://www.mytucsonblog.com/bank-owned-homes/fun-with-polybutylene-and-lender-owned-homes/comment-page-1/#comment-1667 david Sat, 20 Dec 2008 15:18:05 +0000 http://www.mytucsonblog.com/?p=1446#comment-1667 What are the problems with this type of plumbing? What are the problems with this type of plumbing?

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