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Fun with Polybutylene and Lender Owned Homes

December 19, 2008 | By Kelley Koehler | Filed Under Bank Owned Homes

Now, I’m no plumber, but this looks like polybutylene pipe to me. The right color, the brass clamp fittings, the house was built in the early 1990’s…

This is a shot of the master shower in one of my listings, a lender owned gigantic home on the West side, let’s call it a moderate fixup, at a ganga price. The master shower? Been taken out, all the way down to the studs, so you can see the plumbing.

Of course, there’s no way to know what actually happened in this shower, that would make it be in the current condition. Were they remodeling? Was there a leak? Someone just felt like tossing the sledgehammer around over a weekend?

When you buy (or in my case, sell) a lender owned home, there’s a good amount of due diligence to be done. There’s no owner to make disclosures, the bank wants to sell as-is, the buyer doesn’t want to purchase a lemon, and quite frankly, I’m not looking to fool anyone about the condition of this house. Disclose, disclose, disclose. I believe this house has polybutylene. Buyer – you should verify that with your inspector.

Comments

7 Responses to “Fun with Polybutylene and Lender Owned Homes”

david on December 20th, 2008 9:18 am

What are the problems with this type of plumbing?
John Griffith on December 21st, 2008 3:47 pm

Hello Kelley my name is John Griffith and I work for a contractor by the name of Plumbing Express that specializes in turnkey (includes plumbing & drywall) defective plumbing replacements for both single family and multifamily structures in 30 states nationally. The picture you posted is indeed polybutylene plumbing. It’s what’s typically referred to as “second generation” poly which makes use of copper fittings rather than plastic fittings seen in first generation poly systems. Unfortunately both types of poly systems were essentially banned from the US in or around 1995 which is also the same year the poly based class action settlement went into effect. If your interested in the ongoing class action settlement there are two dates that you should take note of. The home must experience a qualified leak by 1/31/09 and the claim for the home must be filed no later than 5/1/09. For more information I’d encourage you to have a look at both http://www.polybutylene.com and http://www.pbpipe.com. Please feel free to email me with all of your poly related questions and I’ll be happy to help out any way I can.
Jonathan Benya on December 22nd, 2008 12:29 am

Amen!! I’d rather lose the sale then put someone in a lemon! There is NEVER a good reason to risk our reputation because the bank is selling as-is and doesn’t want to disclose!
Andy-Ann Arbor real estate on December 27th, 2008 11:27 pm

Yes – buyers need to understand what they are getting into. Always get a thorough inspection done by a pro – not Uncle Ralph. There are many great deals out there, but too many hidden costs can ruin a good deal fast.
Kelley Koehler on December 29th, 2008 11:54 am

David – it tends to leak or break, especially at the connectors, is my understanding.
John Griffith on December 30th, 2008 11:40 am

Looks like you may have a potential Double Whamy on your hands here. I commented a while back about the polybutylene pipes and recently had a second look at the picture you posted only to see the words ABS marked on the black drain pipe. You should know that there is an active class action settlement involving certain brands of ABS drain pipes. For more information have a look at the settlement website http://www.abspipes.com. I hope you’ll reconsider shooting this messenger!
Jake Boen on January 4th, 2009 6:47 pm

PB really is a monster of a mess and I have done my share of research as our house and entire neighborhood have PB. Our service line (PB) broke and we replaced it last year with copper. Also during a shower retiling I confirmed that PB is inside as well.

While performing research I found that PB is currently allowed by the latest building codes. From your photo you have the current allowed ASTM number for the tubing. I can not tell from the photo about the fittings (which have a separate class action suites against them). I have not confirmed that PB has been banned from the US. I’m curious if commenter John Griffith has more details on this.

Here is what the building code states:
Water service PB must conform to the following standards from the 2006 International Plumbing Code.

Polybutylene (PB) plastic pipe and tubing ASTM D 2662; ASTM D 2666; ASTM D 3309; CSA B137.8M

Interior piping must conform to the following standards:
Polybutylene (PB) plastic pipe and tubing ASTM D 3309; CSA B137.8M

Fitting standards:
Polybutylene (PB) plastic CSA B137.8

More code sections:
605.19 Polybutylene plastic. Joints between polybutylene
plastic pipe and tubing or fittings shall comply with Sections
605.19.1 through 605.19.3.
605.19.1 Flared joints. Flared pipe ends shall be made by a
tool designed for that operation.
605.19.2 Heat-fusion joints. Joints shall be of the
socket-fusion or butt-fusion type. Joint surfaces shall be
clean and free from moisture. All joint surfaces shall be
heated to melt temperature and joined. The joint shall be
undisturbed until cool. Joints shall be made in accordance
with ASTM D 2657, ASTM D 3309 or CAN3-B137.8M.
605.19.3 Mechanical joints. Mechanical joints shall be
installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.
Metallic lock rings employed with insert fittings as
described in ASTM D 3309 or CAN3-B137.8M shall be
installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.

Fun Fun!

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